I have an older ITE breaker panel that I may need to run a sub-panel from. The panel is broken into two parts, the upper section contains space for 6 double pole breakers. The lower section contains space for 8 single pole breakers and allows both EQ-P and EQ-T breakers. The lower section is controlled by one of the 6 double pole breakers marked main. The model number I find on the panel is EQ28-616A but I can't find any documentation online for the panel.
Currently there are 4 double pole breakers in the top section including the main for the lower section. The lower section is full with 2 EQ-P breakers and 6 EQ-T (duplex) breakers.
My question is, can I add two GFCI breakers to the panel? We are installing a pool and need one circuit for the pool pump and one for lights and outlets on the deck around the pool. Since I can only gain one full size breaker slot by installing another duplex breaker will I need to run a sub-panel from the main panel using one of the open 2 pole breaker locations? If so, what type of breaker would this panel use for the 2 pole breaker?
The panel you have is an older split-buss panel. The larger 240 volt loads were up top with typically a 2 pole 60 feeding the bottom buss section. The bottom was the smaller branch circuits. You could install a 2 pole breaker to feed a subpanel, as long as all the power can be shut off with 6 or fewer throws of breakers.
You might be able to find a dealer in obsolete breakers for your panel but you will pay a premium for them. I doubt that you will find GFI breakers for your panel. The label should have a list of acceptable breakers that can be used in it.
The panel lists both EQ-P and EQ-T as allowed breakers. Would the same type of breaker be used for both the upper and lower buss? I am planning on installing two 20 amp CFCI breakers in the sub-panel. I know I would need at lease a 40 Amp breaker in the main panel to feed the sub-panel, but would a larger breaker be allowed in the main panel to feed the sub-panel?
Just an FYI for you: Just because you are installing two 20 amp breakers in your new sub panel does not mean you are required to feed it with 40 amps. You do not add the ratings of the branch circuits to find your feeder size. However that said, feeding it with a 40 amp breaker should be fine at this point in time with the proposed circuits. Although you may want to think about the future.
I was originally thinking of just installing a small two breaker sub-panel for the two circuits but you have a good point about planning for the future. If I were to feed a larger sub-panel with a 60 amp breaker in the main panel, what size of wire would I need? The main panel is on an interior wall and I was planning on mounting the sub-panel on the interior of the back wall of the house. The sub-panel would be about 5-6' from the main panel.
One more item, with this type of split panel, how do I turn off the power to the upper 220V breakers so I can install a new breaker?
Originally Posted by kreddick4
I was originally thinking of just installing a small two breaker sub-panel for the two circuits but you have a good point about planning for the future. If I were to feed a larger sub-panel with a 60 amp breaker in the main panel, what size of wire would I need? The main panel is on an interior wall and I was planning on mounting the sub-panel on the interior of the back wall of the house. The sub-panel would be about 5-6' from the main panel.
One more item, with this type of split panel, how do I turn off the power to the upper 220V breakers so I can install a new breaker?
With split buss load centers they are very tricky to turn them off even thru you turn off all the upper two pole breakers off the upper bussbar is still enerized (hot) ditti with service conductors the safest way is have the meter removed however one major warning many POCO will frown with homeowner pop the meter off and they have very strict policy on that but if you call them to come out and they pop off the meter for few minutes so you can pop a breaker on upper section once you get that done the POCO can reinstall the meter back on { some case they will wait few minutes for you to pop in the breaker and once you get it done they will put the meter back on real quick but some will not until the rest of the system is inspected so kinda like catch 22 on this }
Now for the conductor size you will need (16mmІ) 6 AWG size for two hot conductors and netural but for grounding conductor you can use (6mmІ)10AWG conductor size or #6/3 W/G NM cable one of the two will be fine but with subpanel keep the netural seprated from grounding conductors and with most subpanel you may end up buy a ground bussbar they are only couple bucks ( not too often they will included in there so that something you have to watch out for that )
Otherwise the other option is replace the main loadcentre with new box which they will have alot more space there and with legit main breaker in there { you may end up do the load demand caluation to see if you can stay with exsting 100 amp service size otherwise will have to bump up to 150 or 200 amp size } just keep in your mind to replace the service panel is genrally resverd for super serious DIY or Electrician to do this due there are a bit of codes have to be addressed there.
The cost to replace the loadcentre will depending on the area so I really just can't qoute the price here at all it will really varies a bit. especally if you get a electrician to come in and do the replacement for you.
If you have more question related to this matter one of us will help you with this.
Merci,Marc
P.S. it will be nice if you tell us your genral location so we can able give you little better details { pricewise and codewise }
I live in Chattanooga, TN. I believe I have a 150 Amp service. It looks like I will call the POCO and see what their policy is on removing and reinstalling the meter.
After looking at the panel and searching for what breakers will work in it I found what is called a quad breaker that has the following:
1 pole
2 pole
1 pole
Would it be allowed to combine the two QP breakers in to a single QT breaker and then install the quad breaker where the old QP breaker and a QT breaker currently are? I would place the two circuits from the QT breaker on the 1 pole segments and use the 2 pole segment to power the sub-panel. By doing this I can turn off the power to the lower bus using the main breaker in the upper bus.
Originally Posted by french277V
With split buss load centers they are very tricky to turn them off even thru you turn off all the upper two pole breakers off the upper bussbar is still enerized (hot) ditti with service conductors the safest way is have the meter removed however one major warning many POCO will frown with homeowner pop the meter off and they have very strict policy on that but if you call them to come out and they pop off the meter for few minutes so you can pop a breaker on upper section once you get that done the POCO can reinstall the meter back on { some case they will wait few minutes for you to pop in the breaker and once you get it done they will put the meter back on real quick but some will not until the rest of the system is inspected so kinda like catch 22 on this }
After looking at the panel and searching for what breakers will work in it I found what is called a quad breaker that has the following:
1 pole
2 pole
1 pole
Would it be allowed to combine the two QP breakers in to a single QT breaker and then install the quad breaker where the old QP breaker and a QT breaker currently are? I would place the two circuits from the QT breaker on the 1 pole segments and use the 2 pole segment to power the sub-panel. By doing this I can turn off the power to the lower bus using the main breaker in the upper bus.
Originally Posted by french277V
Now for the conductor size you will need (16mmІ) 6 AWG size for two hot conductors and netural but for grounding conductor you can use (6mmІ)10AWG conductor size or #6/3 W/G NM cable one of the two will be fine but with subpanel keep the netural seprated from grounding conductors and with most subpanel you may end up buy a ground bussbar they are only couple bucks ( not too often they will included in there so that something you have to watch out for that )
Otherwise the other option is replace the main loadcentre with new box which they will have alot more space there and with legit main breaker in there { you may end up do the load demand caluation to see if you can stay with exsting 100 amp service size otherwise will have to bump up to 150 or 200 amp size } just keep in your mind to replace the service panel is genrally resverd for super serious DIY or Electrician to do this due there are a bit of codes have to be addressed there.
I believe I have a 150 Amp service. It looks like I will call the POCO and see what their policy is on removing and reinstalling the meter.
Originally Posted by french277V
The cost to replace the loadcentre will depending on the area so I really just can't qoute the price here at all it will really varies a bit. especally if you get a electrician to come in and do the replacement for you.
If you have more question related to this matter one of us will help you with this.
Merci,Marc
P.S. it will be nice if you tell us your genral location so we can able give you little better details { pricewise and codewise }
I live in Chattanooga, TN
If my memory serve me right you are in TVA area and they are kinda picky on the meter seal but for them to come out and pop out the meter and reinstall the meter that part I do not know what they charge for it.
Call them ahead and see what they say about it.
Now for your breaker yes you can able install the quad breaker format you should not have any issue with it.
Merci,Marc
Originally Posted by french277V
If my memory serve me right you are in TVA area and they are kinda picky on the meter seal but for them to come out and pop out the meter and reinstall the meter that part I do not know what they charge for it.
Call them ahead and see what they say about it.
Now for your breaker yes you can able install the quad breaker format you should not have any issue with it.
Merci,Marc
You are correct in that TVA supplies the local POCO. The local POCO is called The Electric Power Board. I will contact them and see about the meter.
If they want to much or want to inspect all the wiring then I will go the quad breaker route.
Thanks for the help.
Originally Posted by kreddick4
You are correct in that TVA supplies the local POCO. The local POCO is called The Electric Power Board. I will contact them and see about the meter.
If they want to much or want to inspect all the wiring then I will go the quad breaker route.
Thanks for the help.
I talked with the POCO and they will come out and remove and install the meter for free. They do not require any type of inspection unless you are making changes in the meter box. Since I will not be touching the meter box an inspection will not be required.
Now I just have to get a breaker that will work in the top part of the panel.
I-T-E was bought by Siemens, they dropped the I-T-E name in favor of Siemens, so a Siemens is a acceptable replacement for them.
FYI: I-T-E was known under a number of names.
I-T-E Circuit Breaker Company (may also say Walker Div.).
I-T-E Imperial Corp.
Gould/I-T-E
I-T-E Electrical Products Div, Siemens-Allis
I-T-E Siemens Energy Automation
Siemens Energy Automation is what it is now.
Please note: Siemens also has the Murray brand, the Murray breakers also branded as Siemens are the same breaker, they are not listed / classified by UL to be used in I-T-E / Siemens panels, so do not use them.
There has been a huge number of brands merge into other companies or disappear altogether, so it can get quite confusing.
Originally Posted by Norcal
I-T-E was bought by Siemens, they dropped the I-T-E name in favor of Siemens, so a Siemens is a acceptable replacement for them.
FYI: I-T-E was known under a number of names.
I-T-E Circuit Breaker Company (may also say Walker Div.).
I-T-E Imperial Corp.
Gould/I-T-E
I-T-E Electrical Products Div, Siemens-Allis
I-T-E Siemens Energy Automation
Siemens Energy Automation is what it is now.
Please note: Siemens also has the Murray brand, the Murray breakers also branded as Siemens are the same breaker, they are not listed / classified by UL to be used in I-T-E / Siemens panels, so do not use them.
There has been a huge number of brands merge into other companies or disappear altogether, so it can get quite confusing.
I picked up a Siemens 100 Amp breaker and it fit perfectly. The POCO came out and pulled the meter and I seated the breaker in a couple of minutes. They then reinstalled the meter and everything worked great. I have installed one GFCI circuit in the new sub-panel.
Thanks to everyone for the help.
Glad you got it up and running. Thank you for letting us know.
That is good to hear that you got it working without any issue along the way if you have other question just holler one of us will help you.
Merci,Marc
Tags: breakers, panel, main panel, they will, quad breaker, Originally Posted, pole breakers, Merci Marc, breaker upper, conductor size
